• Windex007@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    10 days ago

    And then the second pillar of why any ml argument falls apart: the insistence that any concerns about how china operates implies that the speaker of those concerns is defending Western status quo.

    I can envision a more perfect system than China, and guess what, it isn’t anything close to western capitalism. I’ll even go so far as to say that in terms of absolute delta, China may already be closer. Creating a false dichotomy, however, in which it is argued any criticism or concern about China is actually a veiled attempt to maintain the status quo of western capitalism is ridiculous.

    I mean, look at the overwhelming response to the murder of that CEO. Can we not accept that this is at the very least a significant criticism of the USAs runaway capitalist system? Does that imply an overwhelming desire for a Chinese-styled government? No? Somehow it appears to be empirically the case that people can express criticism against a system without existing in some binary state which implies full throated support of exactly 1 alternative that’s been constructed as part of this false dichotomy that ml users live and die by.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      10 days ago

      No, I am implying that among western “leftists” there is a desire to more openly accept vague anti-China claims in a manner that goes against real solidarity with Socialists globally, and they do so because they don’t want to imagine anywhere else could be on a better track.

      • Windex007@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        10 days ago

        Western leftists literally never shut up about the Nordic countries so I must flatly reject the premise that the justification is the preservation some vestigial notion of Manifest Destiny

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          10 days ago

          Seems to me that you’re just trying to dig deeper out of a sense of contrarianism even if you largely agree with what I’m saying.

          • Windex007@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            10 days ago

            Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying, then… But I agree that we’re just bouncing off supporting arguments rather than directly defending or refuting a central thesis.

            My understanding of your point was that western critisms of China are either at best misinformed, but in general the result of trying to preserve the idea that “the west is in front, so everyone else must be behind”.

            I fundamentally reject this specific formulation because the result of that formulation is that there exists no valid criticism of China.

            So, let’s just settle this: what would you say is the most uncomfortablely valid criticism of China?