The attrition is slow, but every user lost to Linux is likely lost forever. After a year or so of totally free software, who is going to build a new windows compatible PC, buy a Windows 11 license, and pay for subscription service just to do word processing, or play a few incompatible games?
Windows completely overestimates people’s willingness to throw out their laptop or PC just to get a new OS paintjob. For every person who does it, another one will leave their ecosystem forever.
Windows licenses AFAIK are already rarely bought on their own. The vast majority of users get one by having it bundled to a new device they purchase.
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Old Brazilian hack to use Windows: just don’t buy it.
That’s how you know Linux made it. If people don’t switch back you are doing something right.
I think I didn’t buy a Windows license ever. Got Win 7 free from my college and always could upgrade for free to the next version. I never used MS Office, mostly did use the Google suite. Games were the only thing that kept me, especially since I got more privacy continuous over the past few years.
I’m currently dual booting Win 11 and Linux mint as a test phase. Actually just running windows for the proprietary phone client I need for work. Otherwise I’m newly exclusively using LM right now. Though I might make the switch to EndeavourOS for it’s rolling release approach and AUR.
Only thing I really hate is that there are some proprietary software like ICUE, L-Connect a proper scanning software for my printer including OCR (there is a version for Linux but it doesn’t include OCR) or shitty driver support for my graphics card. But none of those are issues coming from Linux itself but rather from the lack of support from the developers. Also, I love DLSS and Ray tracing but seriously… fuck Nvidia.
I have a Corsair keyboard and on Linux I use ckb-next to control rgb and stuff
RGB isn’t really the issue for me. At least not when using icue. I need it to control my AIO / fans / temps
Ah gotcha. I just set a custom fan curve in the BIOS which has been working well for me in Linux (I also use a Corsair AIO + Commander Pro).
I just learned of the liquidctl application which supposedly works for this. I’ll check it out later this afternoon and see how it works!
Nice. I’d appreciate some feedback, if you like. Currently in the middle of switching to EndeavourOS as a Arch noob. Am I allowed so say “I use arch btw” now?
At this rate we might just see the Year of the Linux DesktopTM on our deathbeds!
The year of the Linux desktop was 2005
Do you really need that the majority of users use the same OS you use? It’d be nice but not necessary at all.
It helps a lot. Because then, a Linux support won’t be such an afterthought, and you wouldn’t have to deal with stuff like popular games adding anti-cheat that bans Linux users.
Right now, some game developers aren’t even willing to enable EAC Linux support, which is like a one checkbox they need to enable for it to work.
Easy. Every year is the Year of the Linux Desktop™.
the real Year of the Linux Desktop™ was the friends we made along the way.
i honestly just wanna express my gratitude to all the people who made linux what it is today over the last decades, the experience is incomparable to the one i had when first installing debian in 2007. i wish i were more skilled in order to meaningfully give back to this community.
and to all the newbies: thanks for joining our ranks! please dont be scared by the rather elitist attitude that some users display. we secretly all love you!
If you want to give back but don’t have coding skills, you can always be nice and help onboard new users! There’s always been this attitude of ‘linux is better’ immediately followed by ‘rtfm n00b’ when users try to get started. A more sympathetic crowd would go a long way.
It’s a good thing tfm is so good. I don’t use Arch but I’ve used the Arch Wiki so many times to solve my problems.
thanks for the piece of mind! while i do have some skills due to my work, its not remotely enough to work on linux. im gonna be a recruiter then…
What’s odd to me is the cultural zeitgeist has moved to folks being aware that Microsoft (& Google & Apple) is collecting data on them to being the butt of jokes, yet those folks aren’t adopting an alternatives. With over a decade on Linux I’m now pretty out of touch with the opposite feeling. I guess the closest analog I have is not being able to realistically leave Android behind, but that is more hardware than software (banking app already don’t let you root or otherwise flash your device so I have given up hope in trying with them).
A few days ago I tried to install Windows 11 on the PC of a friend. It didn’t work because of missing SATA drivers. Anyway, I was shocked how many points there are where Microsoft or Apple (we used his mac to create the USB drive) tries to sell something (buy pro version of fan controll now) or wants your permissions to gather all your data.
I convinced him to let me install debian. When it came to creating the default user he was hesitant to use his full name, because telemetry :D
I mean I don’t really see the point of using your real name on your system unless you often forget who you are. I would praise my friend tho for having the correct skeptical reaction even if it should be relatively harmless.
I also think it’s a healthy attitude but at the same time it’s sad that people can’t trust their own devices any longer.
Using your real name can have benefits, like metadata in office documents or things like that. If you are sure your devices are yours and secure, there shouldn’t be a reason not to use your own name. Unfortunately this isn’t the case anymore if you are using anything else but Linux
Many jurisdictions recognize pen names & other aliases which a username is & could also be put in the document. Many might prefer not inserting their real name into things by default & if that privacy is desired as default, all the more reason to skip the real name.
If a machine is going to have multiple users (all my computers have multiple profiles for family members) all those users have to be called something, and I’ve not got the energy or the creativity to come up with fun and funky usernames for every system when my actual name is more than good enough.
Username is required for the home folder & login; name isn’t required for anything
Majority of people just dont care about being spied upon unless it directly affects them somehow, at which point its too late for that person. But others having data on you wont likely directly affect you at the moment so not enough people get burned by it for general attitude to change. Smart people understand that all this can very easily change and prepare by not allowing all of their information be available for questionable people to use. Others make fun of them for this and call them crazy until one day they suddenly aren’t so crazy any more.
They actually do care tho about the tracking—if they weren’t privacy wouldn’t be included in marketing like it is now. They are just more willing to accept it as a fact of life rather than dealing with it (or don’t know that they can do something or how to start).
We should make this easier for folks ’cause every email I send from a non-data-collection host usually ends up on a Google or Microsoft server, etc. Every silly Discord chatroom you join, or Facebook page you like has the same ramifications.
(banking app already don’t let you root or otherwise flash your device so I have given up hope in trying with them)
Idk why this myth keeps getting peddled. You can use any banking app on any custom ROM, rooted or unrooted (though I see no point in rooting these days). And even if an banking app blocked you from using their app…the mobile website exists if you really need mobile access to your bank.
mobile website exists if you really need mobile access to your bank.
This isn’t actually always true.
That’s not true. Specially with older banks, they don’t let you run their shitty apps on rooted phones. And some younger banks don’t even let you do certain tasks on the website, they are mobile first.
No rooted phones for our App. No travel to specific locals and countries either. we hvae black lists of Regions of the world where you simply cannot login to your accounts due to overwhelming security concerns and lack of extrajudicial remediation should there be fraud.
banking app already don’t let you root or otherwise flash your device so I have given up hope in trying with them
You can get around that pretty easily by fooling SafetyNet / Play Integrity and hiding root from those apps. My phones have all been rooted for years and I never had issues with banking apps. I don’t even run any google services anymore and the apps I use are fine with that.
Previous phone it worked up until it didn’t. New phone I left unrooted since that was the error they gave me. Now without the root/jailbreak error, I get a useless generic error & the app crashes. I’ve been too lazy to root it just choosing alternative payment methods.
just choosing alternative payment methods.
Probably the better method, no bank is worth going through all that hassle.
I would not say easily. And even if you pass SafetyNet, your banking app may still not work. I have one, and I haven’t figured out what it checks for, maybe LineageOS name or something. Would probably have to tear the apk apart to find out.
Do you use Magisk? I assume you have done the following already?
- Enable Zygisk & the DenyList
- (If Google apps are installed, deny all Google apps root access)
- Deny the app in question root access
- Install PlayIntegrityFix on newer devices OR SafetyNetFix on older devices (don’t install both)
- Reboot, force stop app and clear storage/cache
- (Check if it works with this and this)
That should do it for all apps that do not require strong integrity.
Thanks for the list. I didn’t have PlayIntegrityFix. Unfortunately it does not seem to be helping with the app.
First one doesn’t pass all checks, but the second one does.
Have you managed to get Google Wallet/Pay working?
Yes, on my old phone it worked fine with the SafetyNetFix. I use microG now so Google Wallet is not implemented (yet).
There is the theory, that to convince everyone of something, you have to invest very hard work to convince 4% of the populace of what you are doing is right. After that, the rest will learn to know of this by themselves.
Hopefully this is similar
I work in a very large hospital. I left for 3 years and just came back. When I went to open a document at work, it opened in Libre Office. I was pretty surprised that they ditched Microsoft Office for Libre. Makes financial sense to me, especially because most of our use-cases are simply opening and reading a document or slideshow. But I was still surprised they made that switch, and I doubt half of the employees honestly even notice that much
Now, they still run Windows Desktops, and I doubt that would ever switch in my lifetime. So no linux for us. But still pleasantly surprised at the step forward
Do you really think many people would notice cinnamon?
Probably not honestly, but switching to Libre Office was probably relatively easy and saves way more than it cost to pay IT to get it running on the network.
But switching the desktop environment for the entire hospital system, I could see being costly (in labor costs). Plus, I’m not sure that the EMR (Epic) would play nice, or any of the other various critical programs they use. Definitely a much different (and probably difficult) task to pull off smoothly, compared to switching Office for Libre
epic EMR on Linux
I see a PDF about somebody doing this with the back end in 2002, and it looms like an Intel ad. Its probably viable?
I think it really could be, if administration could understand the limitations of the IT side. And/or the corporate/entity cared to spend the money to make it happen (Like re-hiring the IT department so that everyone was on the same page).
I wish it could, but even I wouldn’t think that it would be financially efficient to try and “fix” what already works. And Epic is just one of the critical programs… there’s a lot of in-between.
If it were my hospital to run; I’d wanna test-run linux desktop in some capacity, because I bet it could be made to work better/cheaper. But it’s one of the most extensive hospitals in the state, with a LOT of everyone around using their services in some capacity. I can’t imagine them shelling out the extra capital to “decide” if there would be “long-term gains”. It’s not financially smart “short-term”, even if financially better "long-term.
But switching to Libre Office? I was surprised. Maybe one day we’ll get there
epic is one of the critical programs
Okay but they… It… At least the back end works on Linux? Or did twenty two years ago, since before some of your younger staff were probably born, according to the first result of my single web search? I think the front end does too? You know computers with different operating systems can talk to each other, right? Yeah you should be sure, and that’s why you set up a test computer in a back room somewhere to be absolutely personally sure.
I understand that its not your decision, I, um, can’t refute that part (I’d like to argue it though? For fun?)
Maybe the entire regime of ‘ownership’ especially of such an important public utility so many people rely on, like a fucking hospital cannot, in real terms, be privately owned? It is the property of the people, of the community it is in, and as such, and as that it is the year of the Linux desktop, you should be conducting a covert assassination campaign against windows partisans on the IT staff and gradually reclaiming that department for the people while making absolutely no other changes to things like billing or scheduling or policy regarding unhoused patients.
Then, when the unbelievers are purged, quietly install Linux with cinnamon on people’s computers, until it has finished, and you are victorious. Reap the software licensing fees you would have paid to Microsoft and 5% efficiency gains in one hospital to jump start the revolution from there. Use it to build a concentration camp for landlords, then…
Use it to build a concentration camp for landlords, then…
Lol, I love the gumption
I unfortunately don’t work IT in any capacity (it’s a hobby of mine), and have never even seen an IT personnel from work, in person. But I also work nights as a nurse (direct patient care), so it’s not really in my “scope of practice” to have much of a say. But one can still dream
Epic is developing Hyperspace for Mac, as well as “standalone” (access Hyperspace in a web browser). Plus many hospitals use Citrix virtualization, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Linux is theoretically possible (though unlikely due to jankiness).
We use Citrix, and that’s where my knowledge really lacks (networking, in general). I feel like it could absolutely be done, but the “jankiness” of every program trying to operate smoothly, seems like a large hurdle (at least to my unknowledgable self). I just can’t see a large hospital like mine, even trying to test-run something that may cause them more headaches than they already are used to. They have enough issues navigating/operating their current systems, as is lol. You can (almost literally) see the devide between admin expectations vs. practicality.
They’re barely interested in spending money on “staff retention”, let alone any software/networking “maybe’s”. They seem to lack the foresight for “long-term” gains, vs the “short-term”. Color me surprised
I could see them asking for unreasonable function, because they don’t understand. And then blaming IT for any hiccup.
And I don’t feel like a web-based Hyperspace would be entirely viable, as we already have protocols for if/when the internet or network goes down. There are computers throughout the hospital that are specifically utilized for any “network downtime”. Maybe they could use satellite or something as a “backup network-generator”, but I’m too unknowledgable to understand how that would work or if it would even be viable. I honestly don’t fully understand how the “downtime computers” operate, so that doctors’ orders can still be made… maybe they already use satellite for those? I have no idea
But definitely doesn’t seem like a “tomatoes/tomatas” situation to me, when comparing going full linux vs switching to Libre. I was just happy to see any kind of sensibility from them on the subject
The games I play work just fine under Linux. I’m EXTREMELY thankful for every single person that has contributed to Linux or the apps they can use.
If I wasn’t such a monkey I’d help any way I could.
I’m not such a monkey, and I could probably contribute if I put my mind to it, but I just don’t have the time… Instead I try to contribute documentation and money when I can. Everything helps!
Oh god, it’s happening. Everybody stay calm
In Russian it’s called Вендекапец and is a bit like second coming.
Maybe it’s not happening yet, but the bigger share it has, the faster it’ll grow.
And MS and Apple have only themselves to blame.
20 years ago, when the first Linux offensive happened, so to say, with Mandrake and a wave of Linux-native games and proprietary products, and IBM support, people would criticize Linux for having inconsistent chaotic UIs and experience. I was a Windows-only kid, so this is retrospective and people can correct me.
Not sure if anybody remembers, but then you could find most of Windows’ important settings in one place, and it looked so polished and patient and relaxing, both 2000 and XP.
Mac OS X was all about toys and shiny colors, but there was also the spirit of it being very polished and consistent and light and fresh.
So - Linux can still be very usable. While both MacOS and Windows even look cheap, I wonder how they managed to achieve that. Even Gnome doesn’t look cheap despite desperately trying to imitate MacOS. Not even speaking about ergonomics.
YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP!!1!11
Not until Netcraft confirms that Windows is dead
Just wait for Windows 10’s service life to run out. That’s when I’m switching full time
Let’s stop pretending that Linux has a small market share. It is flipping 4%
For gaming. For gaming its 4%. Which is the thing everyone says its bad at.
If the latest Steam survey is anything to go by, it’s actually lower of a percentage when it comes to gaming, representing 1.94% of the market. The stats mentioned in the article come from StatCounter which monitors web traffic.
At this point I use Linux for everything except my music production hobby (Mac for that) and even then I use Renoise and BitWig on Linux. I’ve been on Linux since 1996 but I haven’t been 100% Linux until the past two years.
I’m a newbie bedroom music producer but I’ve actually had more luck with my audio setup on Linux than I did on Windows 10.
I’m using an older Scarlet 2i2 to record guitar and back on Windows I was always having driver issues or Windows randomly resetting the sample rate making my DAW freak out at me.
On Linux it just works right away without me needing to download or tweak anything. Only part of my setup that needed tweaking was using yabridge for a few Windows VSTs.
We need a bedroom music producer community.
Wait, you do or do not just use Linux for music production?
What he said is that he does the majority of his hobby on a Mac, but also installed music apps on Linux.
Apple managed to grab a good chunk of the market by making some well-functioning creative apps early on, but I’m not sure if they really have any advantage over Windows anymore.
Music production on Linux is still somewhat behind, due to limited software. People get paid for making that stuff on other platforms, so Linux developers are scarce.
Some of it is also moving to tablets and phones these days, so the kind of person to buy a Mac only for easy music production will probably just get a dongle for their iPad.
You’ll still need a pc/mac for the full studio experience. Not because of software, but because its difficult to rig an entire music studio into a touchscreen with a single usb port. I mean, sure it’s possible, but you don’t want to. Latency, multiple monitors and a shit load of controllers make it physically
impossibleunreliable.On the bright side for Linux, music production is actually very low demanding, so it makes perfect sense to run an old laptop with a low spec distro and still have the same options as the state-of-the-art rig. Young starving artists will probably go that way instead of buying Mac.
Music production on Linux is still somewhat behind, due to limited software.
Audio support has historically been dogshit, and still to this day can be incredibly finicky. Audio latency has also typically been by far the best on Mac OS. But I think lately with Linux with the exact right combination of hardware and software it can be better. Can.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F1c923fvcwyla1.jpg
Sorry for hijacking this beautiful conversation you talented gentlemen are having, but can help me out?
I wanted to learn electronic music creation. I learnt very briefly how fl studio works, and then got busy due to my workload. Now I want to give it a go again. I heard llms is good for Linux, but I don’t understand how to get various instrument samples like fl studio. How do I set it all up? Can you point me to any good resources. I am also not committed to lmms and am open to suggestions.
I cannot comment on LLMs for music generation but, if you are starting from scratch, there are a few methods that I think are interesting.
- Sequencer/Groovebox: Hardware like the Elektron Digitakt and Polyend Play+ use the “piano roll” style generation that you find in most DAWs. How you import and edit samples, then sequence them in the piano roll, varies from one to the other. Fortunately, you can find a lot of video tutorials for most DAWs and hardware based sequencers on YouTube.
- Music Trackers: Whether it is a hardware tracker like the Polyend Tracker or the M8, or a software tracker like Renoise, this type of sample edit and sequencing really lends itself to electronic music. Plenty of tutorials on YouTube.
- Samplers: Here you have hardware like the Roland SP404 MKii, the MPC One, and the Teenage Engineering EP133 KO II and DAWs like Native Instruments Maschine (also requires Maschine hardware). If you have a tablet, check out Koala Sampler. It might be the best $5 you’ll spend this year.
In my opinion, trackers are an extremely fast and powerful way to create electronic music. The main complaint people have is the learning curve since almost everything else uses the “piano roll” method. Since you are starting from scratch, that complaint doesn’t really apply because no matter what you select, you’ll have to learn from zero.
…I think the previous comment is mistyping LMMS software to LLM.
Spez started it all for me.
Spez shit the bed and now I run linux.
I have been slowly switching to Linux for the last year. I have 2 Lenovo ThinkPad’s and an HP EliteDesk running Ubuntu. I have my gaming PC dual booted but, for the moment, mainly using Linux Mint.
It has been an easy transition and I am not some Linux whiz.
You’re a whiz now Harry!
Keep running it for a while and after some time 5 or 10 years you will struggle when people ask you about (basic) Windows stuff.
“Oh to change that basic thing? Control panel…wait…no…the other control panel, the real one…no …(searches it despite MS hiding it more than ever) ok now it’s in one of these obscure hyperlinks half-assedly tossed to the side…which opens a dialogue…with 4 tabs…after you click “advanced”…THERE I turned off Fastboot for you.”
I can’t believe that’s how I used to have to do things lmao.
The scariest thing they can do to Linux now market-wise is to bring back Windows 2000’s UI and paradigm and cleanliness, but with modern kernel and drivers and functionality.
Thankfully they are too dumb for that.
Good. While the number’s been generally trending upwards it’s been unsteady and there have been plenty of months where it went down. If it went back below 4% this month we would have had endless posts about how the earlier milestone was a fluke.
Hopefully when the next backslide does happen (and it will) it’ll stay above 4%.
Is there any way I could find out how much of Windows’ desktop share is coming directly from businesses?
Made the switch this year, I’m not going back.
