• ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.com
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    1 year ago

    Privacy on a non-degoogled Android device is non existent. Just because only Google gets to munch on your data doesn’t equal privacy.

    • superkret@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      OK, but in terms of privacy, I can degoogle my phone by installing one app which is even in Google’s play store (Netguard).
      Edit: Maybe refute instead of downvote? Netguard lets you block all apps from sending data, including all system apps and Google Play Services.

      • notabot@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        I suspect the issue people have is that it is not possible for the average user to confirm that a block like that is working 100%. Seen as google control the OS they can just route their traffic around a block like that if they wish. Sending the data over 4g would mean you don’t even see it on your network traffic logs. There are a number of reviews suggesting it intermittently lets aupposedly blocked traffic through too, but the biggest issue maybe the way it works. As far as I can see, it acts as a VPN, but that means it won’t work well with other VPNs, which is another way the traffic can leak. Basically, installing an app like that doesn’t degoogle your phone at all, it just makes you feel like you’ve stopped your data leaking.

        • superkret@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          There are a number of reviews suggesting it intermittently lets aupposedly blocked traffic through too

          Do you have a link for me? The only thing I could find was this:
          https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/206802/why-network-activity-is-detected-from-apps-after-vpn-firewall-blocks-them

          Which looks like the person who “detected” the traffic doesn’t understand the OSI model.
          In my own exeriments, I never detected any leaking data.

          • notabot@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be a way to link to a filtered set of reviews on the play store, but If you go to the store, find the app, go to the reviews and filter by 1 star you’ll see them. Some of them just don’t understand how the app works, as you say, but there are a number that are harder to ignore. The thing ism if it is acting as a pseudo VPN, it could easily leak when the OS suspends it (for power saving, switching network modes or the like). Honestly, I haven’t tested it, it doesn’t do what I need (I’m on another VPN a lot of the time), and I wouldn’t trust it very far myself, but if it does what you need, that’s what matters.

            • superkret@feddit.de
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              1 year ago

              Thanks for the reply. I’ve now read through all 1 star reviews on the play store and am pretty confident that all of them have no idea what they’re talking about. Various popup messages during installation and use of the app explain in simple terms how to avoid all the issues these users were facing.

          • 0oWow@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I personally observe with my own eyes many many times where Android turns off Adguard’s VPN for a split second when doing various Google things like receiving messages in Google Messages.

            I haven’t been able to pinpoint it but my observation is that the disconnect/reconnect happens when a connection is trying to be made (ex. RCS message incoming), and I suspect Android is dropping the VPN to make its own connection. Sounds paranoid, but I’ve been carefully watching it happen for a long while.

            • miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Same with sensors, camera and microphone. Core system services will always have the privilege to override your permissions.

              Developer Options allow you to fully(?) disable these, but even then, your dialer app for example will have perfect access to your microphone.

              Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather have it be like that in case of an emergency, but it does make you think.

        • superkret@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          Sorry, but I don’t understand your comment. Whose FAQ? Do you have a link or would like to explain what you mean?

          • Oisteink@feddit.nl
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            1 year ago

            No sorry - if you want to claim knowledge without even checking their FAQ I’m fine with that.

            • superkret@feddit.de
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              1 year ago

              Ok, if you won’t even tell me whose FAQ you’re talking about then I don’t care about your opinion anyway.

              • Oisteink@feddit.nl
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                1 year ago

                I’m not sure if you’re dense or just pretending. You talk about a piece of software and I refer to their faq. I’m sure you have researched your claims and read up on this software….

                • superkret@feddit.de
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                  1 year ago

                  OK I’m now assuming you talk about Netguard’s FAQ, not some others from Google, Android or Apple (all of which would have been equally likely in the context of this thread). Yes, I’ve read them. I’ve also read all the 1 star reviews of the app. I know about the apps limitations and am still confident it blocks Google from spying on me. Now what?

  • thorbot@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    This meme is brought to you by someone who has no clue what iOS can do.

      • Oisteink@feddit.nl
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        1 year ago

        Probably - but not as easy as your android device. Ask the black hats if they prefer their victim on iOS or android - it should help identify the most insecure device.

          • Oisteink@feddit.nl
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            1 year ago

            No - that would only be true if both OS are equally secure in the first place. No matter how you behave you are limited by that. So equal behaviour on each system does not yield the same result.

            Freedom is not security or privacy, but sure you (or someone else) can change your dialer on android and that can’t be done on iOS.

            • XpeeN@sopuli.xyz
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              1 year ago

              Freedom is not security or privacy, but sure you (or someone else) can change your dialer on android and that can’t be done on iOS.

              Technically you’re right, but I guess op meant that that freedom let you degoogle the device pretty easily, which turns it so much more private.

              Talking about privacy on stock OSs is a waste of time because we all know both Google and Apple are getting lots of data from their avg user.

              • original_ish_name@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                Technically you’re right, but I guess op meant that that freedom let you degoogle the device pretty easily, which turns it so much more private.

                That is what I meant

              • Oisteink@feddit.nl
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                1 year ago

                I’m not sure you can compare the is to each other. It’s like comparing Ubuntu to Windows and say they are equal as you can demicrosoft windows.
                I’m not sure you can compare apple to Google either. One gives away their os for free and make their money from user data, the other charge their users silly amounts and make their money from devices and cuts of app publisher’s sales. To me that’s a big difference.
                As any user can install an app that “takes over your internets” without rooting there’s only trust keeping other apps from doing the same. Customisation comes at a cost, and many people don’t understand that.

                • XpeeN@sopuli.xyz
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                  1 year ago

                  I’m not sure you can compare the is to each other. It’s like comparing Ubuntu to Windows and say they are equal as you can demicrosoft windows.

                  That’s simply not true. You can install either Linux or Windows on your Desktop, but when you buy a phone you basically stuck with the OS. (You can flash LineageOS but it’ll still be android)

                  I’m not sure you can compare apple to Google either. One gives away their os for free and make their money from user data,

                  Not sure it’s true either, I heard that companies have to pay for Google for putting Google services on their smartphone lines. I might edit to add a source later.

                  As any user can install an app that “takes over your internets” without rooting there’s only trust keeping other apps from doing the same.

                  But when it’s open source and reviewed, while being backed up by bodies like mozzila (looking at you rethinkDNS), it’s way better than your other options. Also, if you don’t trust and app just don’t use it? Web versions are good enough for most cases. And there you have Mull (hardened ff for android) with uBO to protect you.

      • meseek #2982@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        Technically that would make it expressly LESS secure. Is that your aim?

        Regarding privacy, Apple does end to end on the vast majority of their services. Their servers are set up using a unique, physical key, that is then broken so once running, no one can get to the data.

        Apps are sandboxed. Most every sensor or feature is gated behind a user setting to allow/deny.

        But the most critical, Apple is a hardware company. The lions share of profits come from hardware. Google is an ad service/data manager. Probably one of the biggest reasons they dove right to amassing market share by licensing the OS to everyone outside Apple. It certainly helps their vested interests.

        Trust whomever you like, but most things are true to their nature. Whether you want to believe it or not.

        • original_ish_name@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          If you root a phone then you can remove alot of insecurities and also if you unlock the bootloader you can install something more secure like calyxOS

          • Hovenko@iusearchlinux.fyi
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            1 year ago

            If you root your phone you can go both ways and give your security a good night kiss. It is important what kind of phone it is as well. Android devices are a wild world where you can stop getting any updates last week. Also, being able to unlock bootoader does not mean you will get the ability to install any rom you want. Usually this only counts for more expensive devices. Otherwise you might be lucky to get a rom maintained by one guy from India who is taking care of 5 other roms.

    • radau@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      I’m patiently waiting for my 4th Pixel 5A RMA since they love frying motherboards outta nowhere but damn once you get grapheneos going it really is something else

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        1 year ago

        It makes the stock pixel seem so bloated with all the non-removable google apps. Like why can’t I remove the pixel buds app?

        I never had any issues with the motherboard on my 5A, but I gave up on it after destroying the screen twice. I have a 6 now but it’s annoyingly large, top heavy, and I have to keep it on LTE only mode to have decent battery life.

        • Apeeksiht@lemdro.id
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          1 year ago

          I had similar argument in reddit today , people talk about bloat but ignore all the Google bloat, I don’t want to use Google apps, there are better alternatives out there.

          I’m running Paranoid Android on my mi 11x . better than stock miui though I need GM’s and few Google stuffs for some peculiar apps to work.

      • Raistlin@lemmy.sdf.org
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        1 year ago

        Ehhh, technically but its hard for them to tell if your able to switch back before turning it in. And if it doesn’t boot then well… It’s not going to be much of an issue then. Also it is a bit legally grey if companies can void you warrenty solely for installing a custom ROM.

        • bobs_monkey@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          I know with OnePlus, they wipe your phone right out the gate when you send it in for repairs. I’ve had mine fixed twice and never had an issue.

      • pacjo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 year ago

        Depends on the brand. Xiaomi will (in most cases) service the phone even if the bootloader was unlocked and os changed, you just need to restore it to stock state. I haven’t personally tried this, but I heard multiple stories confirming this.

      • superkret@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        I rooted mine, messed with custom ROMs, bricked it and sent it in.
        They honored the warranty and sent it back with a newer Android version than was installed originally, or available through updates :)

      • bingbong@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 year ago

        Saying privacy is better on Android is literally insane, I can’t think of a less private OS (talking about the version installed by manufacturers). Even Windows has some catching up to do to be as invasive.

    • qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org
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      1 year ago

      For wifi, I was pleasantly surprised that I could set a custom DNS on iOS while still using DHCP for other settings. Can only set DNS on Android if I use manual IP (or just use Wireguard).

      Edit: not true, Android can have custom DNS with DHCP, see below.

        • qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org
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          1 year ago

          Ah, TIL! I was looking for that setting in the WiFi settings, since I only wanted it on one access point (to avoid loopback NAT issues).

  • June@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    The whiplash between posts on Lemmy is so great.

    Everyone seems to hate google and how invasive they are while simultaneously simping for google’s mobile OS

    This shit is so stupid.

    • Alien Nathan Edward@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      If one person believes one thing and another person believes the opposite, that doesn’t mean they’re hypocrites. That means there isn’t a consensus. Besides, android can be better than iOS and deserving of criticism at the same time.

    • VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf
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      1 year ago

      Or maybe people hate Google ruining the internet AND realise that iOS is still much worse than Android? The two things are in no way mutually exclusive unless you view the world as a tribal binary.

    • miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Android can be whatever a dedicated community wants it to be, since it’s open source at its AOSP core.

      I love AOSP, but I hate what Google does with it. Or most other manufacturers, for that matter.

      • chocobo13z@pawb.social
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        1 year ago

        Chromium is open source, too, but so many projects putting all their eggs in the same basket gives Google carte blanche to push any standard they want as a new de-facto standard before the rest of us can decide on whether it’s ready or needs changes or is just bad.

    • Orcocracy [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      If you can’t or don’t want to root the phone and install your own de-Googled Android rom then you could get an Android phone designed for mainland China, which will come with all of the Google stuff already removed.

      • June@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Because I’d trust anything Chinese/for China more than I’d trust google.

        • uralsolo [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          I mean, what’s Xi Jinping gonna do with your data? If you’re not a higher up in the defense industry then you really have nothing to lose from a hypothetical Chinese government backdoor into your phone (an American government backdoor, on the other hand, is extremely threatening to you as the USG has shown time and again that if you become a “person of interest” for any reason they can and will build a spurious case against you).

          • randint@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz
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            1 year ago

            Ahh yes the ol’ “the (Chinese) government doesn’t have any reason to want my data.” You know this is what some people use to deflect the concept of privacy because they have got nothing to hide, right?

          • June@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Holy shit lmao.

            It’s no secret that the Chinese government controls everything Chinese companies produce. If I’m using any digital item made in China I assume it sends whatever info it can on me back to China. This is nothing to do with Chinese people and everything to do with its authoritarian government.

            Touch some grass and learn the concept of nuance you twat.

            • bingbong@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              1 year ago

              Touch some grass and learn the concept of nuance you twat.

              They’re from hexbear, you’ll have better luck telling fire to be wet

        • worfamerryman@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          The average android user doesn’t have the ability to use lineageos. None of the android phones in my home even have support. So its not really a fair to talk about lineage when comparing android to iOS.

          I could be wrong, but doesn’t lineageos have problems accessing banking apps since its missing some kind of DRM?

          Maybe this I’d a solved issue at this point.

          • XpeeN@sopuli.xyz
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            1 year ago

            Well yeah but from where I see it, I can choose thàe phone I buy, so I choose a supported one.

            Also, I’m using microg and most apps work. But I mostly use the website anyway so uBO step in too.

  • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    The operating system that Google created to collect your data is secure? Not unless you get rid of all the Google services.

      • CandyDumDub@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Android is AOSP, it has no Google at all. Don’t confuse OEM ROMs and Android Open Source Project. As someone with GrapheneOS I can only laugh when someone calls iOS more private

        • miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml
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          I don’t confuse anything. All flavours of Android are secure systems, but that doesn’t mean they’re all private.

          I definitely agree with you that Graphene is more private than iOS, which is probably more private than most OEM Android systems out there.

            • miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml
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              So, originally I simply stated that privacy and security aren’t the same, and that Android as a whole is very secure.

              And from this, you somehow extrapolated that I don’t know the difference between AOSP and OEM Systems?

              Enlighten me.

          • miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            When I hear Android, I think of Android. And that word encompasses everything imo. That’s how most people use the word in my experience.

            If someone means AOSP specifically, they’ll say AOSP

            • darcy@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              exactly. i think the term ‘android’ should be used as an umbrella term only, like linux.

              “im running linux”

              yeah but what distro? same with android

          • CandyDumDub@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Exactly, but it’s inexcusable when a tech discussion happens. You either know it, or dare to shut up (not you precisely, though). Don’t be a hypocrite, only facts.

      • MooseBoys@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Android is a very secure system

        Except for the ridiculously powerful permissions you need to give most system-type apps in order for them to function (i.e. read and paint over all screen content) because the accessibility APIs are shit, and password manager APIs too fragmented to be useful.

        Sometimes the policy of “you will use our API and you will be happy” is actually beneficial for users.

        • miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          It has its flaws, like any other system. But it is a lot more secure ootb than most peoples’ Windows installation, for example.

          Is that a low bar to clear? Yeah, I guess. But it clears it by quite a margin.

  • Mark@lemmy.ca
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    1 year ago

    You can’t even install DNS66 from the play store because Google bans apps that block ads. This meme is way off the mark and I’m and android fanboy.

  • HiT3k@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    This is such a brain dead take. You cannot compare an OS from one developer to a device from another unspecified manufacturer with no context. No one would claim that a Samsung phone is more private than an iPhone, regardless of the “potential” in the context of degoogling, or the niche privacy switch that’s present on less than 1/10,000 Android devices sold.

    • AItoothbrush@lemmy.zip
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      1 year ago

      Yeah its much more fair to compare pixel devices to iphones. And it still matters if you install a custom rom onto it or not. In my use case yes a pixel is more secure but a lot of people who just go with the out if the box experience may be safer with apple.

      • smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de
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        1 year ago

        And how can we be sure it’s doing what it says? It’s software, on most phones you don’t control software that is running above apps layer.

        • db2@sopuli.xyz
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          1 year ago

          Especially if it’s straight out of China. I just kicked back a fake 11 tablet that was actually 7. The OP advice is only useful if you’re running a rom that you can at least audit the source of.

        • aliceblossom@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I don’t know what phone they’re talking about, but PinePhone disables sensors via hardware kill switches, i.e. nothing on the phone can use the sensors because they’re physically not connected anymore.

          • smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de
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            1 year ago

            Apps can have denied permission from the system, but the operating system can toggle it back for itself or just lie to you.

            The only defence agains manufacturer is having free software OS. And the only way against third-party malware are hardware switches.

            • miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Even something as degoogled as DivestOS will override your permissions and sensor settings to make the dialer app work in all circumstances. So who knows what proprietary apps that many people need might exploit this possibility.

              Like you say, unless you physically disconnect the hardware, you can never now.

            • pewpew@feddit.it
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              1 year ago

              That’s true, but you can always flash Lineage OS or just stock AOSP if there’s a version for your device

  • Jacobp100@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Didn’t google only recently get the ability to block apps access to stuff like your camera, microphone, files etc? That was in iOS over a decade ago

    • heimchen@discuss.tchncs.de
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      1 year ago

      Its just now possible to turn it off for all apps with one swipe and on click. Like I know WhatsApp need Microphone access for voicemail, but I can turn off the access for all apps with one click and turn it one for all apps with access when I need it

    • madkarlsson@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      No, its been there for about the same time ios. A few years ago now they changed it so that the permissions are asked for from inside the app (when X is used) instead of when installing if that is what you are thinking about