It’s been a long journey, but here we arrive. Welcome home.

  • 🐝🇭🇪🅻🅻🇪🇧🅴🆁🇹🐝@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    Tried the official Reddit app today and boy people weren’t joking when they say it sucks. I thought it’d just be the usual experience plus some ads but I was totally wrong.

    The official app doesn’t respect your subreddit subscriptions at all, instead force feeding you feeds of whatever their algorithm thinks will drive maximum engagement just like a shit version of Facebook does. The “hot” etc functional is completely stipped from it entirely.

    Guess I’m here to stay on the fediverse now.

    • SharkEatingBreakfast@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      What absolutely sucks about this is that I had carefully curated my subscriptions on RIF in order not to exacerbate my dumb mental health issues.

      Hell, I’ve read angry posts about people in recovery from addiction and alcohol saying how they keep seeing ads for beer or gambling and things like that.

      It’s horrifying!!

      • Spzi@lemmy.click
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        1 year ago

        people in recovery from addiction and alcohol saying how they keep seeing ads for beer or gambling

        Not that this is how it works, but I imagine a diligent algorithm looking at those individuals and that content, and then thinking “mhhmm this will generate maximum revenue!!”.

        • SharkEatingBreakfast@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          I think that’s absolutely how it works (in part). Ads curated toward your demographic! Maybe it’s not inherently purposeful, but it’s harmful, nonetheless.

          In a subr×ddit about alcohol recovery? “Our algorithm detected that your post history contains the word “alcohol” or “beer” a lot! We will tailor your ads to cater to your interests for maximum profits!” Boom. There you go.

          It takes the human aspect out of the community and drives it to become harmful at worst and soulless at best.

          • hadrian@beehaw.org
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            1 year ago

            Even more than that, you have the idea that ‘similar users to yourself buy a lot of alcohol, so you probably will too’. Of course alcoholics, whether attempting recovery or not, are likely to buy alcohol. So if you’re a recovering alcoholic, ‘similar users to yourself’ are gonna be buying more alcohol than usual, and so you’ll see ads for it. Totally heartless and just for-profit.

      • remi_pan@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        The algorithm really doesn’t work when you are critical or sceptical over a subject. For instance crypto sceptics from r/buttcoin being shown binance ads. Yes, they do show an interest in crypto, but may be the least suceptible persons to that ad.

        • SharkEatingBreakfast@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          It’s different with subs focused on addiction & recovery though.

          Maybe it’s a very bad idea to targeted knife ads in a suicide watch sub, you know? Susceptible people and all.

          • remi_pan@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            I completely agree with you, and your example is very good indeed. (Maybe my previous comment was not clear ? English is not my mothertongue)

            • SharkEatingBreakfast@beehaw.org
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              1 year ago

              Nope nope sorry sorry! I just woke up and misread your comment as disagreeing with the sentiment, but I just reread it and realize that you were in agreement. I was just trying to explain my view further.

              Sorry!! Lol I’ll try to post less when I’m still tired!!

      • amki@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        From an advertiser perspective it makes sense to sell to addicted people. Mission accomplished?

    • Dan_Rachevaski@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      you don’t mention the copious, copious amounts of ads and sponsored contents

      wow thanks reddit, you are more and more Facebook-like now, congratulations.

      • Yeah, that’s pretty bad too but I was at least willing to accept there is a valid reason for that to keep the lights on.

        However, when they go as far to break the core functionality of the website and turn it into another Facebook with psychological manipulation at its core then that’s a whole other thing entirely.

        • Dan_Rachevaski@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          Agreed. Honestly, if I want a FB-like Reddit, fuck that, I’ll going to Facebook.

          Enshittification sucks I would say.

  • KNova@links.dartboard.social
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    1 year ago

    I think even calling it Lemmy is not the right move. Yeah, Lemmy is the server software running on a bunch of instances. But we also have kbin, and new softwares will pop up and fork and come and go over time. Once we can do some kind of account or community level migration, it won’t matter whether you are on Lemmy or kbin or the next great thing. Everything will be federated so it will inter-op beautifully. If an unfriendly instance admin comes along, we can collectively cut and run with minimal interruption.

    Thats still a way off from where we are now but the hard step was getting to the Fediverse in the first place. So, welcome to the newcomers among us.

        • Borgzilla@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          I still use both. 99% of Usenet is spam, but there still a few active groups (especially under comp.*). The BBS scene on the other hand, is booming. I see new users every week on my favourite board.

          • cvr@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            How does a current day BBS work? Landline phone connections are a thing of the past here.

            • duncesplayed@lemmy.one
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              1 year ago

              telnet or ssh (usually telnet)

              If you’re connecting from a modern computer, you just get a telnet client that does the appropriate code pages/ANSI/zmodem/etc. If you’re connecting from a real vintage computer, you get a little dongle that pretends to be a modem (and often accepts AT commands, including fake phone numbers), but secretly connects to WiFi and relays through a telnet connection.

              Some BBSes do still have landlines, and there’s the occasional ham radio BBS, but 99.999% of it is through IP-based telnet or ssh these days.

            • duncesplayed@lemmy.one
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              1 year ago

              Sadly most people CAN’T connect through dial-up, even if both parties have all the equipment. A lot of telcos have redone their entire network in VoIP stuff (with heavy compression) which makes it hard to keep a connection even at 300.

    • Melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 year ago

      I think the concept of the Fediverse is still really alien to people, even the people who are using it. Everyone is still so used to their centralized platforms, so they still think of the Fediverse in terms of platforms rather than as a whole.

      You still hear people say “Mastodon” to mean the microblogging corner of the Fediverse even if they’re not actually on Mastodon, and now people say “Lemmy” to mean the link aggregation corner of the Fediverse even if not everyone is actually on Lemmy.

      • morrowind@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I recently found and like the term “threadiverse” for reddit-like federated software

      • MetalAirship@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but the word “Fediverse” leaves a soir taste in my mount just because it sounds so much like the stupidity that was “Metaverse” (yes I know they are completely unrelated)

      • sillypuddy@mander.xyz
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        1 year ago

        Are you saying there’s other reddit-like/inspired webservices that are part of the fediverse that aren’t Lemmy? What are those?

    • Be Here Now@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      undefined> calling it Lemmy is not the right move.

      Spankin’ new here, so what do I know, but while the semantics might not be completely accurate, that is not an uncommon occurrence. And Lemmy sounds personal, with a bit of a Motorhead edge to it.

      Maybe we’ll all be called Lemmies web slinging in the Fediverse one day.

      • speedrun@lemmy.one
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        1 year ago

        Yup, having a name is a pretty important aspect of growth. And while the fediverse could certainly work, it’s not very intuitive for new users and also covers such a broad range of functionalities that it won’t help people who are specifically looking for a Reddit alternative. Sure ‘lemmy’ is a misnomer, but it’s better to have a name being used incorrectly than no name at all.

  • koze@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    It’s funny to read this article about the death of Digg again:

    In reality, Digg changed their business model and pretended that they didn’t. That is something that is unacceptable with communities and won’t be forgotten. Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian hit the nail on the head in an open letter to (now former) Digg CEO – Kevin Rose:

    “You chose to grow with venture capital and you’ve no doubt (I hope) taken some money off the table in your Series C round. I say this because this new version of digg reeks of VC meddling. It’s cobbling together features from more popular sites and departing from the core of digg, which was to “give the power back to the people.”
    

    https://searchengineland.com/digg-v4-how-to-successfully-kill-a-community-50450>

  • tezoatlipoca@lemmy.ca
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    1 year ago

    You’re missing the precursors:

    Email -> Newsgroups -> CGI forums / IRC -> Slashdot… :)

    The new Fediverse really is kicking up IRC and newsgroup vibes for this old timer. Its very exciting.

    • mobyduck648@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      The bar for being Reddit circa 2010 isn’t that high to be fair, I know expectations have changed but Reddit was down intermittently for years to the point I’m amazed it got the traction it did in hindsight. People talk about Lemmy having tankies on it as though early Reddit didn’t have some even worse unsavoury subs and users too.

    • a1studmuffin@aussie.zone
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      1 year ago

      I imagine as Mastodon and Lemmy pick up more users, we’ll see a lot of activity and improvements in the underlying tech of the fediverse. Should be a fun ride, especially since it’s in the hands of the community.

      • amki@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        Let’s see if the technology can improve fast enough to retain users.

        • blindsight@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          idk, I think it’s there already. I’m already having enough content to engage with and post comments.

          Sure, I can’t scroll through new content endlessly, but there’s enough to replace Reddit.

          I might actually make posts here, too, since it’s likely to gain traction. On Reddit, there were only a select few smaller subs I’d generally post to, and even then, only rarely.

          • amki@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            I mean even Reddit wasn’t really “endless” for me. On particularly boring days I could definitely reach the end of content that interests me.

  • cap_net_admin@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    If you still have a Reddit account, unsub all the subreddits that are refusing to participate in a strike.

    • Spzi@lemmy.click
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      1 year ago

      Good idea! Apparently most of my subs participated, so I only had to unsub a few times. Eerie view to see an empty front page after I was done, never had that.

      Apart from this short visit, I stay away from reddit.

    • croobat@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I’m kinda proud all the communities I follow followed suit! Even some pretty small/niche ones.

  • david@quo.ink
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    1 year ago

    So many long forgotten relics and old friends lost to time.

    bbs, usenet, irc, aol chat rooms, aim/icq/msn messenger (by the way, anyone remember Trillian?), geocities web-rings, various phpBB forums (shoutout neopages), oekaki drawing boards, livejournal, stumbleupon,

    • chaoticPuppies@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Trillian! I paid for the multi-messenger functionality too!

      IRC is not dead. Since rexxit began I have started really searching for programming/data science/tech communities. I have found more than I know what to do with and many have an IRC. I just installed Pidgin on one of my Linix machines. Ha! What a time to be alive.

    • aaron@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Trillian!! That’s a chain of neurons that’s been dormant for about 15 years…

      • Ethereal87@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        Good lord, I think I created several chat handles on other services just for the purpose of linking them to Trillian.

    • SirShanova@lemmy.one
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      1 year ago

      IRC thrives! The dusty corners of the internet where people continue to develop the most obscure software functioning as an unknown pillar of the internet still have IRC channels available to discuss and interact.

    • peanutyam@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Yeah some of those I had forgotten! For me it was usenet, IRC, ICQ, Yahoo Chat Rooms (I was one of the kids that dropped booters and other pesky little bots and hacks into them all the time 😂 - I’m still friends to this day with someone I met via Yahoo Chatrooms though!) Definitely used Trillian, and the old phpBB forums before I found Reddit over 10 years ago…and now Lemmy

    • argv_minus_one@beehaw.org
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      by the way, anyone remember Trillian?

      I never used it, but I did use similar things like Kopete and Pidgin. Both of those still exist and are still maintained, by the way, albeit far less useful now that the big four instant messaging systems are gone. Of those four, only ICQ still exists, and I doubt it still uses the same protocol, seeing as the old one wasn’t encrypted.

  • Breakpr0d@aussie.zone
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    1 year ago

    I realise that this is unpopular. But personally while I disagree with the decision to charge (exorbitantly) for the api and appalled at the slander hurled at the dev, I think that is an business choice and one more item that I have to disagree and live with.

    But I am very excited about the rise of the fediverse. I know that a company will eventually make a decision that I feel very passionately about, but I will be stuck making a difficult choice. With the fediverse, it provides the users with the opportunity to have control. This power of course often comes with various other costs (lack of a dedicated sre or moderation teams, etc). But I expect that over time this will evolve into options where paid offerings will come up that allows for higher QoS where required.

    • totallynotsocsa@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Honestly, if spez hadn’t already sold the site to white supremacists, I’d be a lot quicker to defend this.

      • itty53@vlemmy.net
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        1 year ago

        The api changes really were about protecting their gold mine of data from ai data models scraping for data. Reddit wants to use that data to create its own models and then replace moderators with those models. The ultimate goal here is to turn the existing dataset into an automoderator on steroids that they could sell anywhere. Trouble is someone else is going to beat them to it.

        There was a reason these changes lined up so nicely with Google doing the same thing. Everyone’s realizing they’ve been spouting their gold from firehoses for any machine to pick up, and they’re being reactionary and turning them off asap instead of just like, accepting it as a facet of having a public social network.

    • DidacticDumbass@lemmy.one
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      1 year ago

      It is just the catalyst we need to transcend the status quo and normalize technology that respects its users.

    • vinniep@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      I’m also very optimistic right now. The challenges I see are more around funding, as continued work on the code bases and hosting seem to be the largest hurdles and ultimately easier with money than without. The Fediverse feels like an incredibly natural next step for a lot of users that are coming from a Reddit or Reddit-like background. Everything else (robust collection of communities, moderation, 3rd party tooling, etc) comes with the crowd and from the community, not from the “owner”, and will only take time if we can solve for the funding/scaling challenges.

    • nii236@lemmy.jtmn.dev
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      1 year ago

      People are so confused and overwhelmed about the fediverse mechanics though.

      Maybe there is room for a product that is an aggregator for aggregators. Like, a centralised service that scrapes and collects all Lemmy instances into one super instance.

      • hal@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        Its actually simple. Tell them, its like Email. You have an email account at gmail, but can perfectly fine have email conversation with someone on outllook. Lemmy instance = the same as a web email interface of any email provider. Most people will get their head around that.

      • l4sgc@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        Pardon my confusion since I’m new to the fediverse as well, but isn’t every Lemmy instance like the super instance you are describing? You can access any community on any instance from any other; there are commentors in this thread from beehaw.org, lemmy.world, lemmy.sdf.org, programming.dev, and many others.

        • nii236@lemmy.jtmn.dev
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          1 year ago

          Nah those are like sibling instances. I’m talking about a parent instance that combines all the children instances with a new community that aggregates multiple remote communities.

          Just thinking out loud, haven’t really fleshed out the idea yet.

          • Balthazar@sopuli.xyz
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            1 year ago

            That already exists. ATM, the thing you’re confusing it with is that there are 4-5 “gaming” subs, but eventually if one gets big enough or the others get taken in by one this will happen, and it’ll look like this instance “Technology@Beehaw.org” (p.s. I’m accessing this from Sopuli, so not on Beehaw).

            • nii236@lemmy.jtmn.dev
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              I guess its just a natural progression of being absorbed by other communities that are larger. What I was getting at was a new feature that combines multiple communities into a single one on the backend and presents them as a single one (with interleaved posts/comments from all 5 communities or whatever)

          • Headless3638@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            Yeah, I think I get it - there’s a bunch of smaller gaming@<lemmy-instance> kind of things, you’re talking about a master c/gaming that combines all of the smaller lemmy instances of gaming channels, right?

        • Setarkus.MX@mander.xyz
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          1 year ago

          From what I know, the instances share the posts between each other, but they need to have had contact with another instance somehow before they can get posts from there. Something like a user searching for an instance that isn’t yet known to their “home” instance yet or following a link to it.
          As I understood it, this lets the instances know of each other. Posts of unknown instances won’t show up on your instance until the connection has been made.
          So maybe a super instance could somehow include a newly created instance as soon as it has connected with any other instance already in the super instance.

          (might not be too coherent since I know little about this all as of now ^^)

          • l4sgc@beehaw.org
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            1 year ago

            Wouldn’t the home instance already have to know about the remote instance in some way for it to show up in that initial user’s search?

      • patatahooligan@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        I don’t think such an aggregator is required. Interoperability is smooth enough that you don’t have to think about different instances most of the time. I’ve only really noticed two points that would be confusing:

        • the sign up process
        • the “local”/“all” distinction

        So I think what we really need to do to make this platform intuitive to people that aren’t already familiar with it is:

        • Somehow streamline signing up. The process from googling Lemmy to having an account on an instance should not be confusing or intimidating.
        • Filter by “all” by default. The default should cater to the users which are less likely to figure it out themselves. If you don’t understand what instances are and what “local” vs “all” means, then you are probably here for the “all” experience. If you understand and really want “local” you are probably fine having to set it yourself.
  • Cobe98@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Same fucking journey as you. Reddit was a good run for 10 years, let’s see if Lemmy can work.

    • pretzel@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Yeah, I almost did it, skipped digg. Seemed like a poor reddit clone at the time. Was nice to be on the right side, but sad to see it fall away. All for RSS, open source and federation though, so its nice. Reddit could have done the same - when they open sourced and allowed voat to be, they could have had a federated framework then - and allowed individual servers to handle their own APIs. They could have charged a license fee or something to commerical users who put ads on and made profits, but open source wins again I guess!

      • Cobe98@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I don’t think so. Although many will remain with Reddit, there is no incentive or loyalty for a significant % to do so. If reddit is shit, why not just use FB, Twitter or regular message boards? Already I saw many subreddits have discords already.

        The question for most of those useea is there a lesser evil in choosing one bad company over another? Unfortunately I just see this community content becoming fragmented as a result and no winners emerging.

        I like Lemmy / kbin but I am concerned that a dev could just shutdown their server and a community, accounts are gone. Who pays the server bills, and maintenance backups etc. This seems incredibly problematic.

        Beyond that they need a strong mobile app and 3P decs, a tool to read a users reddit profile and subscribe to similar channels, one click registration without selecting a server. It would be good to also have a mechanism for showing cross-platform posted content in a single view.

        If honestly feels like the 90s wild west Internet days again. No alternative I have seen so far can address these concerns.

      • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
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        1 year ago

        I mean, since there’s no central site to shut down, Lemmy failing would pretty much just mean that it stagnates and some of the bigger instances shut down, at which point there still would be some remnant of it left to stay on, if a smaller one. Failing that, it isn’t the only reddit alternative that people have been working on, so maybe one of the others will be more successful.

      • knotthatone@lemmy.one
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        1 year ago

        Nah. If Lemmy/Fediverse doesn’t work out, there will be others. This has all happened before…

        • amki@feddit.de
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          If the fediverse idea doesn’t work out and it’s yet another company the cycle is bound to continue.

          A big chance is in front of us to break the cycle!

          • knotthatone@lemmy.one
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            1 year ago

            Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. Decentralization is the way to go and I hope Lemmy succeeds. This particular implementation may or may not work out long term, but the underlying idea is sound.

            We’ll get it. Might take a couple tries, but we’ll get it.

    • amki@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      I kinda grew out of it. It was funny when I was an edgy teenager but it got progressively more cringeworthy as time progressed for me, even though the content may not have changed much.

      • darkmugglet@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        I stopped engaging with Reddit when meme-ification happened.Wheb it became all about the lolz abd short pithy responses, I started using it to find more interesting articles. Gone are the days wheb the average Redditor would read and make thoughtful contributions.

        • amki@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          That is in part because the reddit algorithm doesn’t like thoughtful contributions. These take time and understanding of the discussed matter. When your metric is positive (upvote) interaction per timeframe you need easily digestable content that people immediately react to. If I have to carefully read and think about the content my vote/comment is far too late to be “hot” on reddit.

          • Cake@beehaw.org
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            1 year ago

            Yeah that’s basically it. Bots had overtaken Reddit too and just propagated that problem by re-posting posts/top comments.

        • _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          That depended on the subs you were in IMO, there was a lot of that but there were others that still had worthwhile stuff that wasn’t just silly shitposting for fun. Now we’ve got Lemmy though and multiple instances of it!

    • Confuzzeled@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I used 4chan when I was younger but trying to go back after reddit was super depressing, I lasted about 5 minutes.

      • totallynotsocsa@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        I stopped using 4chan when the probability of getting goddamn CP snuff videos in the browser cache because of a /b/ raid got beyond trivial, so like pretty fucking early on.

      • toadmode@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        4chan definitely got worse. like it was always edgy and stupid, but after 2015 every board just kind of became /pol/

  • Ecksell@lemmy.one
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    1 year ago

    Such is life, nothing lasts forever. I could think of a good song for this, but nothing comes to mind yet as Im enjoying watching that Twitch counter of closed subreddits counting up nonstop.