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downvoters support fascism
i was wondering why there are so many downvotes , wish i could see from which instances
Why Poland? Poland is not antinazi in the slightest
The Banderites (the Ukrainian Nazi collaborators) led many massacres of Poles and even the reactionary Polish government had to voice discomfort at them becoming state heroes of Ukraine since the 2014 coup and had a very public beef with the government of Ukraine about that. Of course they mostly fell in line with the rest of NATO since 2022 and now the topic is not spoken about as much.
I don’t get the target for this stuff. I’m inclined to believe that Russia is the aggressor in this conflict, it’s larger, had a better military reputation, and has been treated as such by everyone but the US president. So I’m already predisposed to side with Ukraine because they didn’t start the fight.
Associationing Ukraine with Nazis feels like a way to weaken the support, but anyone in Europe is going to be close enough to walk over and ask if they’re actually Nazis so I can’t imagine it’s going to work on any of them. Meanwhile in the US, let me remind you that the owner of everyone’s favorite social media platform did the Nazi salute for our president who is currently putting people in concentration camps with his own gestapo. If anything, Ukraine being secretly Nazis is just going to strengthen the support.
Can you just give me your manifesto or a copy of your orders if this is some sort of psyops? I’m honestly too busy not dying of poverty and American healthcare to decipher a poorly made meme. Like, if you want American support you could just offer to arrest the Epstein clients or give us real healthcare. Literally just lowering this cost of gas would have half this country committing treason.
lol Zelensky could literally do a Hitler salute and call himself a fascist and yall would be like “well EVERYONE REMEMBER Russia is the aggressor!!” “We cannot have a conversation about this conflict without first and very very often mentioning Russia is the evil aggressor against wholesome epic little Ukraine and pointing out their Nazi insignia is “targeted” and “associating them with Nazis”
Motherfucker, THEY are associating THEMSELVES with Nazis. This article is about Z naming a unit after fascists. There are pictures of him in front of literal swastikas (adjacent symbols meaning the same thing). How in the slightest is that framing Ukraine in any way they aren’t framing themselves?
Also I responded before I read your whole comment. The last paragraph is just slop dude. I think this person should be banned from the instance or however it works, unless you’re willing to prove that you’re willing to learn and not just bark like a dog
So I see a lot of personal attack here and absolutely no answers to my questions. I’m a middle aged dude in Kansas, I’m not pretending to know shit about global politics and I’m well aware my few sources of media are probably equally corrupted by propaganda.
As it stands, the information I have to work with is that Russia attacked Ukraine and now it’s a war. I’m a simple man, when one guy punches another the aggressor is the first one that threw the punch. Nations is just bigger scale not denser complexity. Russia threw the first punch, Russia started the fight. I’m not against new information and will take any peer review proof you have to the contrary. Again, I’m genuinely asking because I want to know.
Now for Nazis. I hate Nazis. I think being a Nazi should disqualify you from having civil rights and proof that you’re a Nazi should be punished with death. So far beyond the line of tolerance am I that I do not even need a level of cognitive dissonance to simultaneously hold this view and the view that anyone can overcome their evils. I do not believe anyone who is a Nazi deserves a chance to redeem themself. Now you come here and say Zelinski named a battalion after Nazis and I yout to understand that this is a thing I have to deal with every day. The leader of my country is also a Nazi, the richest man on the planet is also a Nazi, as it turns out no one but me seems to care so I guess I’m one guy that hates Nazis in a panet of fucking Nazis. So I ask in ernest, with no malice or dismissal, why it should matter that one guy is a Nazi if being a nazi is the standard? I do not condone it, but if my Nazi president likes Russia and “good guy Ukraine” is Nazis, then at this point I’m sure Russia is Nazis too.
And finally, my stance at the end. While I understand it comes across at dismissive and sarcastic, but again it is delivered in complete sincerity. I am the product of a lifetime of disillusion, taught about my inalienable right to religion by the teacher that told me I belong in hell for using it. I watched a society that begged for a tyrannical government to overthrow became the loyal army of the fascist regime and now bite at the leash to hunt people like me for sport. I made piece with being molested as a child only to learn that actually that’s what we want in this country and my true failing was not going on to molest in turn. There is not a day I wake where I am spared the realization that the evils I believed were the flaws in the machine were actually the intended outcome all along.
So I know that no one tries this hard in a tiny little niche forum site on the ass end of the corporate internet for free. Wither it means something to you personally or you’re being paid to do it. If it’s the prior then say it with your whole chest. Give me more than a stale meme, show me a person that cares about a fucking problem because I’m so fucking tired of being the only one. If it’s the later, then just fucking say so. My every day is so crammed full of propaganda. Every ideal I’ve ever held was a corporate product to offload the blame on the common folk. Every year of my education was a regurgitation of lies about the world. Hero I’ve had has been a monster wearing the face of a saint. So if your being paid to make these half assed arguments then tell me what the orders are how well they pay because I’m so fucking done that a foreign actor could buy my loyalty with a modest retirement account. I will sell out for anyone that will pay for the dental care I need.
So what is it? What has you so motivated as to come here day after day and post dated memes about politics when you could literally be doing anything else? I actually want to know.
The claim is that Ukraine knowingly and openly integrated Nazi militias into its formal military structure and openly celebrate historical figures who knowingly and openly collaborated with Nazis.
This is sort of public record and you can just go look it up. It’s real.
Why talk about it? To get people to realize what’s actually happening, which is that Ukraine is being used as a Western proxy as part of their never ending project to subjugate Russia and turn it into a resource colony. You see, prior to 2014, Ukraine was called a corrupt state with a president who was a Russian puppet. They wouldn’t work with the West to allow the West to continue its military expansion. But after that president was ousted, now it is said that Ukraine is “free and democratic” and of course with Russia being evil that’s why Russia hates the new Ukraine.
But the reality is that the West couldn’t ever convince Ukraine to politically become a proxy for the West until the Ukrainian far-right and their collaborative liberals became the dominant power, driven mostly by desire to participate in the super profits of empire. But how can we counter the propaganda from the West? Well, we have to show evidence that Ukraine is actually dominated and shot through by far-right interests. And guess what we find? Literal Nazis.
And of course, for so many Westerners, that doesn’t make sense. Why would the USA, who fought the Nazis, support the rise of Nazi support in their own proxy?
And of course, there’s 2 complimentary answers to that. The first is that the Third Reich was openly and programmatically organized around destroying the USSR and subjugating Russia. The Nazis and collaborators all across Europe, including in Ukraine, have a militant anti-Russian culture. So, if you’re the West and you want any Eastern European country to agree to participate in extending the Western military threat against Russia even if it means triggering a war, well, your best bet is to get the Nazis and their collaborators in that country into power. So from a simple pragmatism, the West can more easily manipulate Nazis into harms way.
But the second reason is that the West isn’t really anti-Nazi. The ruling classes of the West were all in on the Third Reich, Hitler, and Mussolini. They were getting super rich working with them to build out their war machines and supporting systems. IBM, Ford, Chase… The richest of the rich were all over Germany to build the systems that would ultimately become the most deadly war machine on the continent in history. The US had a massive Nazi culture with rallies and political organizations and summer camps. That stuff didn’t go away. It mostly just went underground. It was the USSR that defeated the Nazis, destroying 80% of the Third Reich and marching all the way through Berlin. The “Allies” basically just prevented the USSR from liberating Western Europe. While the Red Army was destroying the Nazis, the US was working with the Vatican to establish ratlines to spirit away 10k Nazis to safety to avoid war crimes hearings, integrate them into the West, give them jobs, property, protection, and sometimes fake identities (Operation Paperclip). They then build NATO and staffed it with Nazi officers. And then they use NATO to organize Nazis, neo-nazis, and collaborators into covert terrorist cells called “leave-behind armies” that they armed, organized, coordinated, trained, and funded with the intention of using them to fight the USSR if they could ever get the opportunity. (Operation Gladio)
So, reminding people that Ukraine is openly integrating Nazis into their military, government, culture, history, and narratives is not just an attempt to shake the support people like you have for Ukraine in this conflict, but to show the unbroken line of history that connects the Nazis of the Third Reich and the European program to destroy Russia with the current conflict involving all of the same actors, movements, programming, narratives, etc.
See, now this is a stance. I only had to skim your second reason because I already knew all that, fuck it’s even outdated. You could have just linked to the musk Nazi salute or a screen shot of a search for “musk naxi salute” showing that everyone here refers to it as the “salute controversy” like he used the wrong arm or something.
The thing is, this is a terrible way to actually do that. Not only is a meme not going to share anything heavy enough to stick, but the rest of the dipshits in this country already don’t do anything about our Nazi President. It might actually buy points for Ukraine to know he’s less of a Nazi than ours it.
I’m inclined to believe that Russia is the aggressor in this conflict, it’s larger, had a better military reputation, and has been treated as such by everyone but the US president. So I’m already predisposed to side with Ukraine because they didn’t start the fight.
“History started yesterday” vibes. Nato had been amassing forces on their borders prior to the Russian invasion, and had already pushed east into former Warsaw pact territories after the dissolution of the Soviet union despite promises not to do so.
Associationing Ukraine with Nazis feels like a way to weaken the support, but anyone in Europe is going to be close enough to walk over and ask if they’re actually Nazis so I can’t imagine it’s going to work on any of them.
I too regularly stroll into active warzones to ask questions easily answered by wikipedia in the time it takes to take a shit.
Meanwhile in the US, let me remind you that the owner of everyone’s favorite social media platform did the Nazi salute for our president who is currently putting people in concentration camps with his own gestapo.
Yeah, they’re bad too, what’s your point?
If anything, Ukraine being secretly Nazis is just going to strengthen the support.
Not very secret but sure why not.
Can you just give me your manifesto or a copy of your orders if this is some sort of psyops?
“I’m the main character”
I’m honestly too busy not dying of poverty and American healthcare […]
How unique of you.
Like, if you want American support you could just offer to arrest the Epstein clients or give us real healthcare.
Support to…not give shit away for free that cost money to make to another country involved in a conflict that has nothing to do with us? 🤔
“History started yesterday” vibes. Nato had been amassing forces on their borders prior to the Russian invasion, and had already pushed east into former Warsaw pact territories after the dissolution of the Soviet union despite promises not to do so.
A ‘promise’ that has been debunked often enough. Used by the oppresor to justify his actions.
Also since Ukrain IS no part of the NATO it does even if it would be true, which it is not make even less justifications.
You make a pact and then leave something that important out of the official part? Common.
Wat?
I’m honestly too busy not dying of poverty and American healthcare to decipher a poorly made meme.
i’m convinced that this is the reason why westerners – americans in particular – support ukraine in this conflict. (or atleast i want to believe this)
it’s clear you’re missing 2 key pieces of information that you can’t be blamed for not knowing because our media won’t talk about it.
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the nazi thing was so pervasive in ukraine that congress decided to ban weapons sales to ukraine because of it and then it was later lifted it when russia became involved.
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russia became involved because A) nato expansion has always threatened russian existence and B) said nazis took over the ukrainain gov’t with the american gov’ts help and started shelling the people in eastern ukraine (just like isreal is doing to gaza rght now) when they voted to join russia because of said nazisim
here’s a whole bunch of sources if you want to know more details: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12Hi1pOYSjJ1umb72CTNzvJ7e4wfhEfk1Hn3AxjGE4go/edit?tab=t.0
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Removed by mod
have some kind of disorder
Cool ableism. Have you considered being less of a bigoted shithead and people might feel more inclined to explain their views on things?
Big reason I’m on .ml btw is all the times I venture out I have to deal with sinophobes and their nonsense orientalism who aren’t treated seriously by moderators when reported on other instances because China is a US designated “bad country™” just like those being racist to citizens of the DPRK or calling Russians orks among calls for their extermination etc. If you people could just be less chauvinist the rest of your spiel might hold some merit.
Everyone who disagrees with my smoothbrain burger politics must be mentally ill: an infantile bedtime story for redditors.
Here, let me propose an alternate theory: you are a little baby, and I’m you from the future.
