For example, I’m using Debian, and I think we could learn a thing or two from Mint about how to make it “friendlier” for new users. I often see Mint recommended to new users, but rarely Debian, which has a goal to be “the universal operating system”.
I also think we could learn website design from… looks at notes …everyone else.
Every distro could learn from Arch Wiki
Even Arch Linux could learn from the Arch Wiki.
The Debian Wiki would actually like a word.
There is stuff in there that’s not found anywhere else. For example while researching driverless printing recently I found a huge page on the Debian Wiki but the Arch wiki only has a paragraph saying supporting printers should be detected automatically.
The Debian wiki is awsome. But it’s less noob friendly than Arch wiki.
The web UI looks like an old forum from 2000. Don’t get me wrong, a well written manpage style webpage is way better than an eye candy bloated scripted webpage (IMO) and I really like how detailed the Debian wiki is. But in today’s “mental standards”, the Debian wiki is not attractive enough for most new comer.
Also, It seems the Debian wiki is not as indexed as Arch wiki on the web.
Finally… I can’t access their wiki with my VPN ! :/.
But I do agree, The Debian wiki is a gold mine !!!
All distros, or none: flatpak has to improve in regards to launching an app from terminal. Following is a joke:
flatpak run com.github.iwalton3.jellyfin-media-player
Why can’t the installation create aliases like
flatpak run jellyfin-media-player
? And then highlight conflicts during?It would also be nice if it could alias to the normal command, for example, LibreOffice with CLI commands like lowriter or localc.
Did you know you can evoke LibreOffice from the terminal to convert one file format to another? It can do what Pandoc does, but also works on old .doc files. Flatpak’s weird CLI behavior makes it difficult to use though.
Ask the devs. I haven’t bothered asking so far. There’s fp https://github.com/DLopezJr/fp but I don’t like workaround if it’s easily fixed upstream and it’s not like they wouldn’t know that it’s bullshit. Maybe they can’t decide upon a solution. Or are waiting for another important and relevant update.
This is extremely simple to fix with scripts that can be automatically created on install time. Here is a quick script I just wrote. It will search for first matching app and run it. Just save the script as flatrun, give it executable bit and put it into $PATH. Run it as like this:
flatrun freetube
#!/usr/bin/env bash # flatrun e # flatrun freetube if [ "${#}" -eq 0 ]; then flatpak list --app --columns=name,application else app="$( flatpak list --app --columns=name,application | grep -i -F "${@}" | awk -F'\t' '{print $2}' )" if [ -z "${app}" ]; then flatpak list --app --columns=name,application elif [[ "$(echo "${app}" | wc -l)" -gt 1 ]]; then echo "${app}" else flatpak run "${app}" fi fi
Edit: Just updated the script to output the list of matching apps, if it matches more than one.
It’d be dangerous if an installed app claimed to be something like sudo or bash. Even if a mechanism was created for flatpak apps to claim a single shell command, there is no centralized authority on all flatpak apps to vet them. If there was for flathub, and each uploaded package was checked, that still leaves every other non-flathub flatpak repo which must implement the same vetting. Because there’s no way to guarantee to do it safely, and because flatpak devs are unwilling to compromise, this is just what we get.
However in the same way, compromised flatpak app can also put a malicious .desktop file in
~/.share/applications
, which also allows execution of arbitrary command, even outside of the flatpak sandbox.User home permission is just incredibly dangerous on linux, I think we need special permission to explicitly allow access to these folders in home. Fortunately more and more app starts to support portal, which makes them much more secure.
Although, I do wish portal would have a access per session vs access forever option. For now if you open a folder through portal, the app was granted r/w permission to that folder forever.
Fedora, NixOS and Void need a proper wiki like Arch
Most distros could also learn from Arch and create something similar to the AUR. Nix is going in the right direction.
And I guess almost all distros could learn from Artix and Devuan and reconsider if systemd is the right choice.
honestly I wished the arch wiki turned into a distro agnostic wiki. i have been using debian for decades and use arch wiki all the time but it would be nice to have a one stop shop for linux documentation. the Wikipedia of Linux run as a coalition.
Seconded. NixOS’s documentation has consistently been the worst I’ve read, always forcing me to go to the source code to try and understand what in the world is happening. It makes quick changes to new things nigh impossible. I had to resort to taking notes when I understood things about nix in order to retain the knowledge or at least link to where I could easily regain it.
The nixos wiki was marginally better and https://nixlang.wiki/ has been better. However the latter is less known so has less content. All in all, nix documentation is still bad.
Anti Commercial AI thingy
NixOS has the best concept and even pioneered it, but whether its implementation and documentation is perfect is a topic for debate.
However, it’s been quite long since I had to fiddle with my config and as such, the downsides don’t really affect one on a daily basis. In fact, I recently reinstalled my machine to change the root filesystem and it was an absolute breeze. If not for secure boot, it would have been absolutely trivial, and with secure boot it was easy and convenient.
As such, I consider the pains an investment into system that runs much better down the road. Though I’d love it if these pains were reduced.
NixOS has the best concept AMD even pioneered it,
I’m assuming “AMD” is a typo?
Anti Commercial AI thingy
Yes! Apologies, didn’t proofread what my phone produced from swiping
The Debian Wiki is so much better than the Arch one.
This has to be bait.
It is not
Fedora’s installer is abysmal. There’s a number of installers it could learn from. They’re working on one at the moment, so I hope it’s good.
Enabling access to proprietary software should also install audio/video codecs. Or at least have a separate checkbox for it, like (I believe) Ubuntu has.
Fedora’s installer is abysmal.
I thought so too. It doesn’t have enough options for power users and too many for newcomers. It caters to a middleground that barely exists.
Enabling access to proprietary software should also install audio/video codecs.
The codecs are also the #1 thing that annoy me in Fedora. Because of shitty US patent laws the rest of the world has to suffer.
Fortunately many flatpak browser now comes with codecs, like ungoogled chromium and librewolf.
The installer is the single one reason I can’t switch to fedora. I have several drives in my machine and I like to separate them, but their installer scares the shit out of me. I can pull it off for sure, but I just don’t want to take the risk
I think more distros should have an easy way to set up disk level encryption in the installation
And know how to use an existing btrfs partition. And always [at least have an option to] show exactly what the automatic installer is going to do before I run anything. There’s gotta be a middle ground between “we’ll just surprise you” and “here, do everything yourself”.
OpenSUSE has a guided setup if you dont want a surprise or don’t know what manual setups requires. then prior to starting givea you a summary of what will be done.
Great, there we go, sounds like all distros should learn from OpenSUSE.
Each one has good parts, but I think openSUSE did a lot to make things easier for new users to linux
- Install, you see software summary, you can click and alter what patterns or packages you want included.
- auto snapshots when you enter package manager or admin tools, easy rollback with snapper or boot list
- a GTK front for all of YAST2-GUI components. All system, network, firewall, service, packages, boot and kernel config are available as GUI dialogs (as well as many others)
I switched my daily driver to Linux Mint Debian Edition recently and it definitely does combine the best of both. It’s easy to use and coming from plain debian has everything that I’m used to. Been loving it so far.
OpenSuSe - snapper for taking btrfs snapshots and rolling back. It’s basically a bulletproof way to do updates and recovery. Get a bad update or change a config in correctly you can roll back. Updates it automagically does this for you
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Maybe you would like Void or Chimera
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I totally agree with your assessment about Mint and Debian.
I like Debian’s minimal approach, but I think minimal can also be user-friendly.
I still has a nice installer, though.
The Debian website is trash and I’m glad to see it acknowledged. People always take criticism of the website as if folks are saying it looks ugly. No. The layout is just icky.
It’s difficult to find where to even download the thing, particularly if you’re looking for older versions
YES! YES! This is exactly what I’m talking about.
I love the look of the Debian website.
I don’t have a problem with the look, just the organization.
I do not recall other distros failing to update due to GPG key issues but it has happened to me on Arch distros many times. It is the biggest pain when converting from something like Manjaro to something like EndeavourOS as well.
I really do not understand why this cannot be fixed.
Slackware - if it ain’t broken don’t fix it. Gentoo - USE flags. Mint - user-friendly.
If you want Debian but user-friendly, just use Mint, Debian is easy enough to install. It’s like asking Gentoo or Arch to drop a easy installer, it would break the point of using it.
Gentoo and Arch do have easy installers (Arch via the Arch install script, Gentoo… Well, they provide stage 3 already built, a genkernel option, and even binary distribution now, which greatly simplifies the process)
Arch install is not official and it’s not that stable, and what’s the point of using Gentoo if you don’t use the main reason to use it ?
Honestly, that one had me scratching my head too, I doubt I’d ever use the precompiled binaries on Gentoo myself
The stage 3 tarballs and genkernel, though, make an install that could take a week or more down to a few hours; having successfully built a system from a stage 1 with customized kernel, that’s not an experience I feel a burning desire to go through again
having successfully built a system from a stage 1 with customized kernel, that’s not an experience I feel a burning desire to go through again
It’s a way to do, and yes it’s not made for everyone. Currently im using vanilla Arch but i understand how great source installed Gentoo is
Would it detract from Debian if it had an installer which was more intuitive to new users? As long as they don’t remove the options to configure, I see no harm, only benefits. To me, the thing about Debian is that it’s a community. If a distro wants to be elitistic, sure, that’s up to them, but I don’t see Debian having that goal.
There’s already an gui installer on Debian, what do you want ? The system to install himself without asking for your preferences ?
I don’t know. It’s difficult for me to answer because I’m so used to the Debian installer. But, for some reason the general opinion is that it’s difficult for many compared to some other distros.
More difficult because Debian rely more on the terminal than mint. The terminal is not a accessorie like on Windows, it’s part of basics Linux uses. In my opinion it’s important to learn how to be familiar with
I think text based interfaces is a strength of unix-like systems, valuable tools to be used when the situation calls for it. It might be a lot to ask of new users to be familiar with terminals before they have even installed the system though. If Mint can get the same result with a GUI, I see no reason why Debian can’t offer that option too, and let users discover bash and TUI when they have a working system.
When you’re beginner it’s normal to not be familiar with terminal, that’s why i recommend Mint as a first distro. What im saying is that We already have Mint as a beginner-friendly distro, we don’t need Debian to be as simple as Mint, also they included non-free firmware in their iso it’s pretty enough imo.
I also think we could learn website design from… looks at notes …everyone else.
whacks you with a rolled up newspaper No! Bad. Wrong.
There is a beauty to simplicity that’s lost on so many. I can load a Debian wiki page over a dial-up connection at the south pole. The design is uncluttered and uncomplicated. That goes for every page on debian.org
I often see Mint recommended to new users, but rarely Debian, which has a goal to be “the universal operating system”.
I always took “universal” to be in the sense of “universal remote”: it’s not universally adopted, it’s universally applicable. The fact that it’s the upstream of so many major distros (including Mint) indicates that it’s accomplished that.
Making it “new user” friendly necessarily requires restrictions and choices made by the maintainers for the ease of the users, which negates the “unversality.”
I agree that there is beauty in simplicity. In my opinion, OpenBSD has the best website.
It’s not about using fancy effects, it’s about the sprawling logical layout and making it hard to navigate. It used to be better around 2005, when it had the left navigation index. I remember people said it was ugly then, but imho they changed the wrong aspects of it, removing the structure without adding simplicity.
For example, a new user reading this page https://l10n.debian.org/ will be confused. It only makes sense to me since I’ve already translated a bunch of debconf-po-files. These are my opinions, but you are welcome to disagree. Also, please don’t hit people with rolled up newspapers, it’s rude.
Not my current distro but I love ChimeraLinux, they manage to put musl and BSD userland into a working wonderful distro. I wish more distros adopted musl.
What I am really hoping catches on from Chimera is Turnstile: https://github.com/chimera-linux/turnstile
While I love that Chimera is Wayland only from the start ( no Xorg ), I do hope we get more DE options than just GNOME at some point.
Early days still for Chimera. I expect big things.